71 replies to this topic

[Master Shortpants]

I really do think putting Idioteque last or mps first would ruin Kid A. Of course the songs would still be as good as ever but Kid A the album would blow. Which proves the point you're trying to counter-argue. Sequencing matters, a lot!

[rose]

"Proves"

[Naomi WHAT!?]

Do I drink milk and then orange juice? Do I eat pudding before Pizza? Yes and yes. Not immediately after one another obviously as I don't have a massive appetite. Thanks for asking though. One of my things I do is have coke at night (cravings for it) but will then drink milk soon after as I realise the caffeine will probably keep me awake so I need to fight that somehow. But hey, thanks for asking.

 

And are you seriously telling me that if Idioteque was after Motion Picture Soundtrack or In Limbo was after National Anthem it'd change everything? Or if the album started with Motion Picture Soundtrack then Kid A would be a fucking disaster? No of course it wouldn't. And that's my point. Obviously albums are better with great sequencing but it won't wreck the album if the individual song quality is high. I think people are just being twats about it, really.

For a start, yes I am seriously telling you that. They probably approach the album with songs, then work on them so that they sound cohesive together, and then put them together in a way that is pleasing to listen to. It doesn't matter where the songs came from though, it's the same as the art of sequencing a great mix tape. Maybe you don't mind listening to a disjointed mess, but I sure as hell do.

[tearfullildietgirl]

lmao pudding before your pizza british people are weird

[Xenodude]

I understand and accept that, but do you really think the first thing Radiohead does when they enter a studio to make new music is say: "whatever happens, let's make sure the album is properly sequenced and feels like one big cohesive unit". No, they make the music first and foremost, and then in finishing the product off they sequence the album and possibly produce outro's that lead into the next song for continuity.

I'm not saying it's not important, but overall it really won't make a massive difference if the overall quality of each individual song is really high. The Bends is a great album but I'm not crying just because the band could have switched a few songs around here and there.

Are you KIDDING me!? Sequencing is literally the reason why songs like The Butcher, Staircase, Nude, etc don't end up on albums or take forever to get released at all. I don't have direct quotes, but Ed and Thom are always saying things like "It just didn't feel right" or "It just didn't fit with the rest of the songs." Sequencing was the reason In Rainbows was the biggest gap between album releases--the band kept obsessing over having all the songs play nicely with each other. I do agree that half of that is the quality and character of a song (some songs are just never going to sound cohesive in the context of a certain album), but I think sequencing plays a huge part. The quality of Staircase and The Butcher is extremely high, so by your argument, they should have appeared on TKOL regardless of the band thinking they didn't fit, but they weren't. I'm guessing sequencing played a huge part.

/rant

[norabarnacle]

Are you KIDDING me!? Sequencing is literally the reason why songs like The Butcher, Staircase, Nude, etc don't end up on albums or take forever to get released at all. I don't have direct quotes, but Ed and Thom are always saying things like "It just didn't feel right" or "It just didn't fit with the rest of the songs." Sequencing was the reason In Rainbows was the biggest gap between album releases--the band kept obsessing over having all the songs play nicely with each other. I do agree that half of that is the quality and character of a song (some songs are just never going to sound cohesive in the context of a certain album), but I think sequencing plays a huge part. The quality of Staircase and The Butcher is extremely high, so by your argument, they should have appeared on TKOL regardless of the band thinking they didn't fit, but they weren't. I'm guessing sequencing played a huge part.

/rant

 

Exactly. What Xenodude said. They're obsession with sequencing and the intricacies of tracks is well documented and spoken of by all of the band members, as well as Nigel. 

[MarkGrace]

Are you KIDDING me!? Sequencing is literally the reason why songs like The Butcher, Staircase, Nude, etc don't end up on albums or take forever to get released at all. I don't have direct quotes, but Ed and Thom are always saying things like "It just didn't feel right" or "It just didn't fit with the rest of the songs." Sequencing was the reason In Rainbows was the biggest gap between album releases--the band kept obsessing over having all the songs play nicely with each other. I do agree that half of that is the quality and character of a song (some songs are just never going to sound cohesive in the context of a certain album), but I think sequencing plays a huge part. The quality of Staircase and The Butcher is extremely high, so by your argument, they should have appeared on TKOL regardless of the band thinking they didn't fit, but they weren't. I'm guessing sequencing played a huge part.

/rant

 

Well he's right in that they don't going into it thinking of a sequence.  They record the music first, whatever that may entail, and then sequence after based on what they have.  If you watch the full interview from ACL with Ed and Thom, they describe this process.  Thom says they flail around in a lot of different styles during their sessions, and so sequencing after the fact becomes critical because it helps them contextualize what they've done.  But as Desired Constellation said, it's create music first, sequence second.  

Here's the interview:  http://vimeo.com/53626581

[Desired Constellation 6]

Well he's right in that they don't going into it thinking of a sequence.  They record the music first, whatever that may entail, and then sequence after based on what they have.  If you watch the full interview from ACL with Ed and Thom, they describe this process.  Thom says they flail around in a lot of different styles during their sessions, and so sequencing after the fact becomes critical because it helps them contextualize what they've done.  But as Desired Constellation said, it's create music first, sequence second.  

Here's the interview:  http://vimeo.com/53626581

 

Thank you. Finally someone understands without going on a rant. Creating the music comes first or "the art" as Ed would say. There's no way I can comprehend that people would dispute that. I'm not saying sequencing isn't important and I never said Radiohead don't pay attention to it (thanks for the rant though xenodude, hilarious)  but you can sequence an album of 'chickens mating with penguins' to perfection but if it sounds like shit, then it'll sound like shit regardless of how you sequence. The  individual music quality has to be high (and is in Radiohead's case is). Then they can spend all the time they want sequencing it, which they do. But the band doesn't go into the studio thinking how they'll sequence things before they've even made the music!

 

People really are losing their shit though. Of course I like listening to sequenced albums, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying The Bends or any other album just because I believe an album wasn't sequenced to my liking.

[Xenodude]

Well obviously they create the music first, as there would be nothing to sequence otherwise. I don't know, the way I read your post, it seemed like you were implying that the band cared more about the quality of the songs that appear on the album than how the songs are sequenced, which is false--and which is why so many great songs don't appear on albums. That, I don't think can be disputed either.

When it comes to creating the music, they aren't thinking sequencing (as that would be impossible, no?). When it comes to putting what's written onto an album, sequencing becomes an excruciating headache for the band. For example, I think I remember Ed, Thom, and Nigel all having a fit over whether Videotape should appear at the beginning or the end of the album. And half the songs on the second disc didn't make the cut because for one reason or another, the band didn't think they fit--despite being great songs.

It may not be the literal "first" thing the band says, but I think the immediate statement after the creative process is: "whatever happens, let's make sure the album is properly sequenced and feels like one big cohesive unit."

[Bluebelle]

For example, I think I remember Ed, Thom, and Nigel all having a fit over whether Videotape should appear at the beginning or the end of the album. And half the songs on the second disc didn't make the cut because for one reason or another, the band didn't think they fit--despite being great songs.

 

I read that there was talk of having Fitter Happier be the first track on OKC.

[norabarnacle]

I was operating under the presupposition that we were speaking of sequencing *after* songs had been recorded. Was anyone implying otherwise? I didn't really pick up on anyone suggesting that the band went into recording with any kind of notion as to how a given track would end up being placed on a record. 

[ToxicBadger]

A bad tracklisting can make for a very jarring listen CASE IN POINT Crazy Beat on Think Tank

 

Although I agree with what you're saying (to some extent, some albums like, for example, Rubber Soul are just collections of great songs that aren't particularly cohesive, but are still great), the reason that Crazy Beat messes up that part of Think Tank is because it's a really crap song, not because it was positioned badly.